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7mm-08 load for elk (Page 1)

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Author	Topic: 7mm-08 load for elk
Dukntz Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Watertown Wi.,U.S.A. Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-21-2002 10:37 AM Does anyone have a favorite 7mm-08 load suitable for elk at reasonable range. I know the bullet design is more important than the caliber, and I plan on using a good bullet like Nosler Partition or Failsafe in 160 gr. I think my Rem. Mountain Rifle would be a lot more fun to carry than my S&W 7mag.
buckblaster Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Colville, WA, USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 04-21-2002 12:03 PM After alot of load testing with Barnes X bullets, I finally found a load that groups just under an inch in my 7-08. I took a 5x5 bull this past season with 43.5 gr of Varget behind 160 gr X bullet. It chronos at 2750 fps out of my 22" barrel and happened to be the fastest load I developed after testing about a dozen different powders. As usual, work your loads up to it.
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-22-2002 01:32 AM I like the 7mm caliber but I do not think the 7mm-08 is enough gun for ELK! the .270 is pretty much accepted as "the minimum" and is a full 100fps faster in the same bullet weight. you have a 7mm rem. mag. use the extra 250 fps it will give you. with a 160 gr. partition.The velocity of your 7mm rem mag load becomes what your 7mm/08 load is at the muzzle somewhere past 200 yards. quite an advantage for the magnum round.That kind of shortens the "reasonble distance" theroy. I don't think a wounded animal is what you are hunting for. especially because the lighter rifle is "more fun" to carry. I would look at my priorities. personally I found a lightweight .300 win. mag. for those days, but normally I shoot a .375 H&H and have shot a .338 win mag. and am starting loads for a .35 whelen. these are tough animals. leave you little seven home. ------------------ "My shoulder aches but there is a song in my heart"
Handloader Supreme Member Posts: 1270 From: N.E., Oklahoma USA Registered: Nov 2001	posted 04-22-2002 11:59 AM I have to kinda agree with Cowkiller I believe that a 7mm08 is a bit on the small side for elk. I admit I have a great elk rack at the house that was killed with a 308 Win but the shot was under 100 yards. You should Elk hunt with a 7MM mag or larger. Of course this is just my opinion. The Nosler 160 grain Partition in a 7 Mag is a good Elk selection. ------------------ Load More to Shoot More Often
The Butcher Member Posts: 87 From: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Registered: May 2001	posted 04-23-2002 02:16 AM My choice? No it is not. If I were going to use it anyway...., I'd opt for a bullet such as buckblaster used, Barnes X, or as you mention, Nosler Partition. Could you kill an elk with it? For sure. If you took high percentage shots, at a reasonable range. I saw a huge bull killed with a 30-30 the last time I was in Colorado. The man who shot it, had told me he had killed lots of elk with it. He also said he hunted in the timber, and never shot more than 75 Yds. He did not have a scope, because he said his shots had to be quick. I would rather have a 7-08 than a 30-30, even if I was shooting bullfrogs in a pond! The 7-08, is a very efficient cartridge, I would bet that one of the remington classic's in the 7-08, because of the 24" barrel, could darn near reach .280 Remington velocities, but still, I think it is a little light as the others stated. I took my Magnum, two trips ago. But it did not make the trip last time. I carried a older Rem ADL in 30-06, loaded with Barns X bullets. Total weight of the rifle and 2-7 Leupold, was about 7-3/4 pounds. Very managable.
MrGnA Supreme Member Posts: 2619 From: Pittsburgh, PA. Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-23-2002 08:56 AM Duknuts, My guess is you probably use 3 1/2" magnum shells on your waterfowl hunts. The same should hold true here in the big game department. You, being a waterfowl enthusiast, I'm sure dread cripples. Indeed the 7-08 is light but as the other authors write, is adequete. I have a good friend whom swears by the .308 for elk, and has a nice trophy room to show for it. You do say something that I deeply respect "reasonable range". But the percentage is high that a great bull may be beyond a reasonable range. And packing-in tells me that you intend to take this seriously. Do yourself good by visiting Patrick Smith's essay pages on "packing in" with Rambling rifles. His website is Kifaru.NET and go to "The Right Information" Check out Patrick's own experiences and the experiences of other back country packers. ------------------ Need Life Help? Be quiet and ask the Holy Spirit.
Dukntz Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Watertown Wi.,U.S.A. Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-23-2002 07:13 PM Thanks for all the feedback. I guess I have to explain my thinking on using my 7-08 over my 7mag. I fully intend to use my 7mag as a saddle gun for spot and stalk elk hunting. I am a true believer that when it comes to the tenasity of a elk,hopefully a nice bull, that you should shoot the most gun you can COMFORTABALY handle. (I am sure all guides have stories of greenhorns who bring out a brand new super-mag-ultra-improved-make noise caliber rifle that they close their eyes to shoot because they have spent too much time punishing themselves at the shooting bench and have developed severe flinching. They would be much better off paying a few extra bucks for premium ammo and spending a few extra hours at the range shooting off-hand and kneeling with their trusty ol 06.) What I am looking for is the best load for my 7-08 for when my guide says, OK, you want a chance at a big mulie, we have to go up there at timber line above the elk, and we will spend most of the day on our feet walking on a 45deg. angle and we will leave an hour and a half before sun-up and return 2 hours after dark!! Thats when I think the joy of carrying a mountain rifle will be greatly appreciated. And just in case we see a nice elk,in reasonable range, offering a reasonable shot angle, or the mulie is 250 yards out and ready to head for the next county, I want the best bullet and load that will shoot well from my rifle.
Dukntz Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Watertown Wi.,U.S.A. Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-23-2002 07:17 PM P.S. MrGnA, I shoot 2 3/4" handloads pushing 1675 f.p.s. And you're right that I hate cripples and I won't hunt birds of any kind without my faithfull lab!!!!!
buckblaster Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Colville, WA, USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 04-24-2002 12:30 AM Regarding taking the 5x5 bull with the 7-08 with the 160 gr Barnes X, I should have mentioned that the first shot stopped him at 200 yards(pacing after the fact)with a shot thru the lungs with the exit hole the size of your thumb, then the next shot thru the shoulder dropped him like a ton of bricks. I was considering taking my 7-mag that I also tuned a load with that has similar groups to the 7-08. My 7-mag loads (with the same bullet) chrono only 150 fps more than the 7-08 so I chose the 7-08 for this elk hunt because the weight of this short action was 1 1/2 pounds lighter than it's mag counterpart(which is quite a bit). It proved to be just as deadly as the 7-mag at 200 yards. The 7-mag is extremely inefficient compared to this 7mm version of the .308 with regard to powder charge and velocity gain. The performance of this short action cartridge should be plenty ample for elk up to 300 yards. I don't know what your shooting abilities are, but there has to be a limit to the wounding factor. So is weight a factor?
BigBob3006 Supreme Member Posts: 760 From: RIO RANCHO-NEW MEXICO-USA Registered: Jan 2002	posted 04-24-2002 02:26 AM DUKNTZ, This was my favorite 7mm-08 load. 140 grain Nosler Pt., 44 grains of H-Varget, CCI BR2 primers. Out of a Rem. M-700 BDL with a 22" barrel the velocity was 2835 fps. Extreme Spread was 6.1 fps and accuracy was great. I only took one cow elk with it at about 125 yards. The bullet was placed behind the ear with the cow on a diagonal facing left, looking away from me. A .22 LR may have done the job, but she fell so hard it looked as if she bounced. Also had excellent results on several deer. Good luck. ------------------ BigBob .30-06
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1015 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-24-2002 03:37 PM The late jack O'Connor's wife used the 7x57 Mauser with the 154 gr. Hornady (pre-Interlock yet), and a load of H-4831 for about 2650 FPS. She had no problem killing elk with that combination. Hornady shows loads up to 2800 FPS with that same weight bullet in the 7-08. It seems strange to me, that 80 years ago, a 30-30 was considered just fine for elk, but now a 30-06 is marginal. Sounds to me like a lot of Madison Avenue BS to me. On the last group elk hunt I was on, about 5 years ago, the four of us took two elk. One was killed with a .308 Win. and the other with a 30-06. The .308 was loaded with 150 gr. bullets and if memory serves, the 06 had 180's. Both were one shot kills. It ain't what you hit 'em with, it's where you hit 'em. Nuff said? Paul B. [This message has been edited by Paul B (edited 04-24-2002).]
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-24-2002 08:46 PM Well Paul,not quite nuff said, the madison ave. approach gets my dander up a bit. guys taking animals with underpowered weapons tends to irritate me as well. a 7mm/08 and a .308 just ain't enough gun. a 30:06 is a good caliber but not my choice. "it's ain't what you hit em with It's where you hit em" talk about madison ave.B.S.!!! you guys were lucky! Had the animal turned or stopped or anything to foul the shot The .308 shooter/killer would have turned into wounder/tracker. a 150 gr. .308 bullet having a sec. desity of only .226 It is a poor choice all around for Elk. I gotta say Paul I don't recall in your post where you were the shooter. You don't have the firsthand knowlege you think you do and quoting some 80 yr. old writing just does'nt get it for me. That said, Most of the Elk hunters on this forum have felt that more rifle would be a better rifle for Elk most settling with a .300,.338 or.375 magnums. ask them! This man is going on an expensive guided combination hunt for mule deer and Elk asking for advice and you are quoting Jack O'conner like you were "weiner touchin' buddies" with the guy! 80 years ago was 80 years ago and those guys did'nt talk much about the game that was wounded and left. Jack spent a lot more time afield than you or me. the game has changed, Shots at Elk are harder to get. few and far between. mostly due to the fact there are 10 times the hunters even though the number of Elk has increased.why take a chance with a marginal rifle in the mountains where a 300+yard, with a crosswind,uphill,quartering away shot at an Elk or Mule Deer is more than just a possibility.You have a much better choice in your safe! But you could listen to Paul who was with some guys who shot two and read some dated material on the subject. ------------------ "My shoulder aches but there is a song in my heart"
buckblaster Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Colville, WA, USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 04-24-2002 09:37 PM Yawnnn... I'll save my wasted breath
beemanbeme Supreme Member Posts: 2037 From: Middle of West Virginia Registered: Mar 2001	posted 04-24-2002 09:49 PM I guess it bears repeating: You read a lot of articles by outdoors writers espousing the use of light tackle for fishing. However, in a bass tourny, which I have fished a lot of, the conventional wisdom is to use tackle heavy enough to land the largest fish you hope to catch in the worst conditions you may encounter. This is excellent advice for elk hunting also. I want a gun that will take the elk out period!
The Butcher Member Posts: 87 From: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Registered: May 2001	posted 04-25-2002 02:00 AM I'll agree with one should use as much gun as he or she can handle. I'll also agree times have changed, and the way we hunt, has also changed along with our quarry. But I also think people today are so fast paced, that they rely on equipment, instead of their woodsmanship or practicing. I'm not claiming that I'm Joe Superhunter, but I do know when to shoot and when not to. That is your choice, and you have to live with the consequences of that choice. If you are given the perfect shot, which for me would be 50yds,broadside, with nothing between us, things can still get fudged up. It happens. If you had a .270, or a .338, and perhaps your scope got bumped off, you could still shoot them in the guts, no matter what you were using. I do a lot of shooting, and I see guys at the range, with more gun than they can handle. If you were to video them, their eyes would shut, their face would wince, then the gun goes off, and then they start to adjust their scope for the pulled shot. The debate of the best rifle, will go on forever, no matter what spieces is hunted.The one thing that I think bothers me,is that the kill seems to be primary, with the over all experience secondary? I think shooting 300 yds at a moving animal leaves a lot of room for error, and would be poor judgement even if shooting a super magnum. I think some guys could make the shot, but I think most, with the adrenalin rush, would come up empty, or feel sick in their stomach if they just wounded the animal. A few would end up lucky, bragging about their skill. Bottom line, take what you shoot the best,and is as heavy as you can handle.
sunseeker Junior Member Posts: 28 From: evanston,wy,usa Registered: Jan 2002	posted 04-25-2002 11:53 AM here in WY a lot of people from out of state use 7mm on elk but all most everyone here use 30-06 or 338 in some form or other just a heavier bullet, the range has gotten longer for good animals over the years and the added energy out at 300 does make a big differance.. a good bull is a big animal and when the energy levels get below 2000 lbs animals like to just keep moving no matter how good of shot placement. ------------------
rickt300 Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Alvarado,Texas,Johnson Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-25-2002 08:44 PM Well I have killed elk with a 7x57 mauser and 160 grain speer spitzers pushed to just under 2700 fps with AA4350. No problems whatever even on somewhat angling shots and at ranges up to 300 yards. Good penetration as the bullet usually exited. I know a group of guys that live in Wyoming and they swear by 25-06's and they get elk every year. These are experienced hunters that eat what they kill. This magnum baloney does get on my nerves.
Joel ofMN Junior Member Posts: 15 From: Moorhead, MN USA Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-25-2002 11:34 PM I know that I am going to recive flack on this one but many of of the pepole I have talked with sound much like a few here 7 mag for elk nothing less. The poblem here is many say the 7mag is good out to 300yards well doden't the little 7-08 have the same CONTACT speed in dark timber as a 7 mag shot cross canyon? With the little 7-08 your probibly better off for quick short shot due to gun manuverability. Just shoot a well constructed bullet {read barnes X} were it needs to be and you'll be comencing to removing one the the tastiest critters out of his home to yours. Personaly I like big bullets 35 and 416. but little ones get the job done just the same. Just my 2 cents Almost forgot quit shooting 31/2" 10ga swiched to 1800fps 3" 12ga more pleasant to shoot and seems to kill better with smaller shot at longer ranges!!!!!!!!!!!! [This message has been edited by Joel ofMN (edited 04-25-2002).]
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1015 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-27-2002 02:01 PM No Cowkiller, I was not one of the two hunters who got elk on that hunt. One was an 80 year old man with a heart condition (30-06)sitting on a log as we drove the elk to him and the other gentleman (.308 Win.) was 76 years old. The third member of our party, who happened to be my boss also carried a 30-06. I was the only one carrying something bigger, a .300 Win. Mag., which they gave me a hard time ragging me about my "howitzer." I had handloads using the 200 gr. Speer spitzer flat base loaded to a velocity of about 2850 FPS. I've been up in your neck of the woods, and I'd probably use my 45-70 or .358 Win. or maybe my .35 Whelen considering the denseness of the forests in that area. I answered Dukntz question in the vein that he was asking, that is a load for the 7mm-08. Now where in hell do you come from telling me I don't know what I'm talking about? The difference between a properly loaded 7x57 and the 7mm-08 ballistically is not all that great. I have pushed 160 gr. Noslers to 2750 FPS in a strong 98 Mauser. That is only 50 FPS shy of what the Hornady manual stated could be reach by the 7mm-08, the cartridge in question. Frankly, I get just a bit tired of what these "eggspurts" in the gun rags keep saying about all those super-zappers like the .30-378 Wby. What ever happened to people who like to spot their game and stalk to withing a reasonable distance and then shoot their animal? Guess that in our current society, it is no longer whether the hunt is the thing, but the ego trip of always being successful. Sniping some poor ungulate for 700 yards or so is not hunting, it's sniping. I prefer to see how close I can get to my quarry. Sometimes I win and sometimes not. Mostly I win. I go along with Elmer Keiths feeling that every man should scratch his fleas in his own manner. But after 52 years of hunting deer and elk, I figure that whether or not I'm successful isn't the point anymore. It's just being able to go out and do it. I feel I've taken more than my share. When I hunt, I choose the rifle I want to use. It may be a 7x57, .308 or even my .416 Rigby. But to tell me that the 7x57 or 7mm-08 is too small. Bull! Hell, it's nothing more than sophistry. Paul B.
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-27-2002 08:27 PM Paul,"sophistry" nice word. I use that word alot! especially around the campfire. "My shoulder aches but there is a song in my heart" [This message has been edited by cowkiller (edited 04-27-2002).]
huntarizona Senior Member Posts: 296 From: Ft. Huachuca Az USA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-27-2002 11:58 PM I want this on record COWKILLER lives on the western side of oregon or as we call it in eastern oregon the valley so i want to say the majority of people in eastern oregon don't share his views we don't like it when they invade our side of the state during deer and elk season. But back to the subject people in sweden use the 6.5x55 all the time to kill moose now what would they say about cowkiller showing up with his cannon they would probably think he wans't a very good shot and he needs the cannon to finish off the elk after he has hit it several times cause he was flinching. So don't rag on one man or girl for carrying some thing you don't like cause sometime you might be laughed out of someones camp for carrying your bazooka. "CONSERVATIVE EASTERN OREGONIAN AND SERVING PROUDLY IN THE UNITED STATES ARMY." [This message has been edited by huntarizona (edited 04-27-2002).]
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1015 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-28-2002 01:10 AM Huntarizona. My daughter lived (existed ?) in Eugene for a couple of years. Frankly, I wasn't too impressed with the area. Scenery was fine, but I never saw a more anti-social group in my life. As far as small caliber guns go, My late friend Jerry hunted with a .257 Robt. He used it for everything, including elk. Due to medical problems, anything more powerful was out of the question. The man could hunt, and when he went after a deer or an elk. He got it. His rifle was a little Mannlicher stocked Mexican Mauser carbine that was a tack driver for the type. We used to hunt jack rabbits for practice on running game, and I never saw Jerry miss. Not once. When people tell me that cartridge "X" is too small for whatever, I try to take it with a grain of salt. Sometimes though, when someone tells me I don't know what I'm talking about, I try to ignore them too. But, sometimes, I just have to have my say. I see you're located at Ft. Upchuck. If you get up my way, stop by and say howdy. paul b.
Hellrazor Supreme Member Posts: 2228 From: Abyss, PA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-28-2002 08:07 AM Amazing this arguements starts over and over and over. I will give everyone a little insight on something.. you use what you feel comfortable with and YOU know it does the job. Remember the old saying.. Opinions are like ...., everyone has one. Ask any older hunter what they used 60 years ago and most will tell you they used to hunt deer with a rimfire. Its just the new outlook on life, bigger is better. You see it in the SUV's, cars, houses, etc. Take it all with a grain of salt and use what you want to use. Soap box off...
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-28-2002 10:58 AM you guys are a trip. huntaz. as far as your statment on where I as a native oregonion hunts really causes a problem with me. I hunt on public lands, I pay my taxes,and also proudly served my country in the U.S. Marine Corps in less supportive times probably prior to your birth. You are talking out of turn! When I start hunting on your families land then you got something to say. till then Shut Up! Paul as far as calling an entire communnity anti-social based on a visit is pretty short sided. I guess if it happened and you've been around it once it must be a fact. we have already seen that you don't like to be told that you may fall short of the mark. as far as your working knowlege of a situation. If you guys can't stand another opinion that may be different than yours, too bad. cheap shots both of you ------------------ "My shoulder aches but there is a song in my heart"
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1015 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-28-2002 03:24 PM Cowkiller. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me. Like I said, everyone has the right to scratch his fleas in his own way. What I do have a problem with, is someone acting as if I did not know my *** from a hole in the ground. I feel that in the years I have been hunting, (52 to be exact) I must have learned a few things along the way. Some by experience, and some by people more experienced than myself. None of the more experienced treated me like a dummy, and I've tried to pass on what I have learned to others less knowlegeable than myself, (and I certainly don't claim to know it all, as I feel I am still learning)without being condescending to them. If I remember corectly, the origianl question was what bullet and load to use in a 7mm-08. I answered that question, based on my experience with the 7x57mm Mauser, which when handloaded to it's full potential is not very far behind the 7mm-08. I also gave an example where the 7mm Mauser was used on elk by O'Connor's wife with success. I sincerely believe that elk have not gotten tougher in the ensuing years. Harder to hunt? Oh yes. Still, if I can get withing 200 yards of any elk, regardless of size, I think that my puny 7mm Mauser will put that animal down, if I place my bullet in the right place. I usually do. I would also not feel I was undergunned with either the .308 Win. or 30-06 under the same circumstances. I also recall, that I said if I was hunting your neck of the woods, I would use either my 45-70, .358 Win. or .35 Whelen. I also have .330 Mags and a .338. Mabe my .375 H&H or .416 Rigby would please you more. I use all of them when I feel the need arises. Paul B.