7mm-08 load for elk - The Reload Bulletin Board

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7mm-08 load for elk (Page 2)

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Author	Topic: 7mm-08 load for elk
The Butcher Member Posts: 87 From: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Registered: May 2001	posted 04-28-2002 08:51 PM That little 7mm-08 sure does have one heck of a loud report! Whew!
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-29-2002 01:15 AM Paul,Do you feel your statement about my community being "anti-social" is not condesending. You need to take your medication! As far as how well you shoot(usually) I could care less. same goes with the number of guns you've bought. I could care less. You are advising a man to hunt Elk with a weapon that is not up to task, which tells me you are less than informed (that's where you felt like a dummy)or have never tracked a wounded Elk for miles. (from the description of the spry guys you hunt with I'm pretty sure there ain't alot of tracking going on,more than likely leaving wounded animals)Don't EXPECT respect here. Then you get angry because somebody does not agree with your activities and you attack them personally. I'm reciprocating and again I could care less how this all makes you feel. I'm not going to let all that go by with at least saying something contrary. I belive it to be true from MY experience and base my statment on My ethics that the 7mm08is not an Elk cartridge . From that, I get from you guys that I have MY family living in an anti social community and that I should'nt hunt legally in my own state from some overexaggerating snotnosed army boy who does not even pay any Income or property taxes in this state.huntaz were'nt you the kid with the .375 weatherby magnum that could make it go faster than ever thought possible a while back? Oh and let's talk about your Statement of how the entire population on the east side of oregon feels. that is probably somewhat misrepresented by your proclaimation, being the son of a landowner,not a buisness owner or even a taxpayer you have no Idea how much money the "valley hunter's" bring to your otherwise commerce challenged part of the state each and every year and the amounts of funding from vally hunters that goes to game management for the area east of the cascades. I hunt at least 150 mi. from your daddy's place Boy so I gotta belive you've mistaken me for someone else. Moron! Normally I tend to show some respect towards others but in the case of this pair I will make an exception. Huntaz you are probably best left seen and not heard and Paul don't trip on your walker while stalking you prey to within 200 yards so you can make your usual good shot. ------------------ "My shoulder aches but there is a song in my heart" [This message has been edited by cowkiller (edited 04-29-2002).] [This message has been edited by cowkiller (edited 04-29-2002).]
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1060 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-29-2002 02:33 AM Cowkiller. You'd best take your Prozac. First off, I never called you any foul names, so let's keep this civil. Second, sir I do not road hunt, nor have I ever road hunted. As to your town, I got a lot of rsentful looks when people noticed my out of state license plates on my truck. My daughter was remodeling her home at the time and when we went to get lumber, among other things, I was given a bit of a hard time. I base my feelings on that matter, based on the experiences I had. I never said the 7x57 or 7-08 were the best rounds for elk. I just gave what I felt would be the best choice of bullet if that was what he was going to use. Nothing more, nothing less. The question was about the 7-08, right? The fact is, if used properly, they will work. If not, even a .375 H&H won't do the job. You use what you feel is the proper rifle for your style of hunting, and I'll do mine. However, I would appreciate you not resorting to name calling. Another. There's nothing wrong with getting old. We just get better. Lighten up. You'll get old someday if you don't give yourself a heart attack or something before then. Paul B.
cowkiller Senior Member Posts: 251 From: EUGENE OR u s a Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-29-2002 03:30 AM OK let's be civil. you are telling the world that eugene oregon is a hub of anti-social activity because some folks gave you a resentful look? maybe it's your toupee. maybe you fit the profile of a serial killer but don't condem a community based on your paranoia and a look! talk about prozac, what are you on? as far as getting old I'm certain it's coming and I hope to get there without the paranoia and have sense enough to not accuse others for my shortcomings. you know I don't care if you shoot a 7mm/08 or not just don't shoot elk with it.it's not enough should something go wrong and something usually does.
Hellrazor Supreme Member Posts: 2307 From: Abyss, PA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 04-29-2002 08:19 AM Cowkiller, and the rest of the bazooka gang. In case you have never noticed this, people have been hunting elk for a long time with the 06, 270, etc. They are some of the oldest cartidges. lets do some research here... 30-06 - 1903/1906 270 - 1925 300wm - 1963 303 - 1888 338wm - 1958 35whe - 1922 So, you still going to tell us you need a 338 or 300 to hunt elk? seems to me that those cartridges came out a heck of a long time after the 270/30-06/303. 303 and 06 military rifles were being used to hunt big game 60 years before the big magnums came out. So either your Elk invested in body armor or this is no different then the gun trade rags pushing magnums for everything from shooting sqirrels to hunting big game. 'Its renown as a flat shooting big game stopper has kept the 270 alive and well for more than 65 years. Much of the popularity of the 270 can be credited to the late Jack O'Connor, who wrote more articles on the 270 caliber than any other person. The 270 has long held a position as one of the most popular big game cartidges in North America' -- Hornady Handbook of Cartrdige Reloading 5th edition Now we will stretch our minds even farther, if using these firearms is so out of place. Explain to me why they are legal for hunting elk/moose/bear/etc? You would think they would ban any caliber that cant do its job wouldn't you?
beemanbeme Supreme Member Posts: 2037 From: Middle of West Virginia Registered: Mar 2001	posted 04-29-2002 09:23 AM Now don't hold back boys. Go ahead and say whats on your mind. I have never hunted elk with a 7-08 but considering that 26-2700fps is possible with a 160gr bullet, I think it ought to work. That said, it would still not be my first choice of cartridges. I agree with killer that hunting conditions have changed since Oconnor did his writings. More folks afield. More folks with time constraints. I prefer a heavier round. Not to shoot farther, but to deliver a greater payload on target. Oconnor used to go on month long hunts thru the Rockies and rarely see another person. Try that today. If your elk goes over the ridge, you may well find another hunter gutting it when you track up to it. Cowkiller, "sophistry" is a perfectly good word. My drill instructer used to use it all the time. Last time I was camped on Willow Creek in Wyoming, we talked around the camp fire about the sophistry of todays hunting "experts" that gain most of their experience from computer programs, heresay, and reading; arm chair great white hunters as it were.
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1060 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 04-29-2002 02:20 PM Cowkiller. Before we go any further, there were some other circumstances that I will not go into either publicly or privately that happened during the visit, and afterwards. I will just take it this far. You have some people up there who do business in a very dishonest manner, and if I were a vengeful man, you'd know of me by now. So let's let that part drop. Bee's comments about Jack O'Connor ring true, but let's for the moment compare Jack with Elmer Keith. Jack was, I believe fairly well to do. I think that by the time he moved to Idaho in 1948, he was making a darn good paycheck from Outdoor Life. The fact that he could afford big game hunts in Alaska and canada during the WW-2 period shows me at least that he wasn't a poor man. He always hired guides from at least 1940 on for his big game hunts, and when hunting elk, usually hunted above timberline where he could more or less pick his shot. Here, a round like the .270 was most likely more than sufficient. He may have been a hard dude to get along with. One guide who'd just finished a hunt with his was asked what he was like. All the guide would was, "He's a darn good shot." Elmer, on the other hand was not well off finacially. He acted as guide most of the time, and the areas he mostly hunted were in black timber, where a poorly shot elk could get away. So he recommended the larger bore cartridges and was instrumental in the development of rounds like the .338 and .340 magnums. Each of these gentlemen based their thoughts on proper cartridges base on their style of hunting and the areas where they hunted. It's funny, because Jack thought that Elmer was just playing around with him to keep the controvery going, but Elmer flat out hated Jack's guts. Go figure. Most of the areas where I hunt elk are in fairly open forest. Most shots are under 200 yards. After opening day, the elk move way out into large meadows where they can see a hunter coming a mile away and just stay out of range. The biggest problem there now, is slob hunters on ATV's. I had one group who spotted me during a stalk actually drive in and cut me off, then chase after the elk. Real sportsmen, they were. I found their camp later on and they had two elk hanging. I got my animal the next day, and after gutting it out and tagging it, I went back to get the truck to get it out to camp. When my wife and I got to where the elk lay, there was a gut pile, a torn up tagg, and two ATV's about a mile away scooting accross the meadow, each with half an elk on the back of their machines. I really hope those guys really needed the meat. FWIW. I used a .300 Win. mag. with a 200 gr. Speer SPFB. You see, I know when to use a light rifle and when to use something more potent. Frankly, I really don't know what set you off? All I did was answer the man's question in the context he posted. There was no reason to make it a pissing match. Why don't we just agree to disagree and let it go at that. Who knows? I might even end back up your way in my travels. We might even end up liking each other. Paul B.
BigBob3006 Supreme Member Posts: 760 From: RIO RANCHO-NEW MEXICO-USA Registered: Jan 2002	posted 04-30-2002 12:52 PM TO EVERYBODY, What has gotten into everyone??? This site has always been a pleasure to visit, 'til now. I realize the entries to this subject represent a very small minority of the people who frequent this site but it seems as if they have misplaced a basic part of our sport, good manners and sportsmanship. The anti-hunters and anti-gun crowd would have a ball seeing use behave in this manner. It seems to me that a great portion of our disagreement with them is that we don't choose to live our lives according to their values. I donot think that the .22 Hornet is a eik cartridge, but in New Mexico it is a legal hunting rifle. I wouldn't elect to use it or associate with one who would use it. But more important I sure would not want to take away his right to. I've taken many elk with a .338WM and a friend thought I was under gunned. Lew carried a .375 H&H. If it rang his bell to use a .458 WM, more power to him. Lighten up, no one wants to do a unmentionable act in your church. "Can't we all just get along". Now how's that for going into left field. Do any of you know the best way to save a drowning blond? No, good. Have a good day all. ------------------ BigBob .30-06
Dukntz Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Watertown Wi.,U.S.A. Registered: Apr 2002	posted 04-30-2002 10:31 PM Thanks for all the info, I think! Next time I have a question, I'll have to be more specific!!
Greg Administrator 264 RLB #1 Posts: 7501 From: Orange County, New York Registered: Jan 2000	posted 04-30-2002 11:55 PM I think that this thread has veered a little too much off the topic. Lets remember what the original question was... quote: Originally posted by Dukntz: Does anyone have a favorite 7mm-08 load suitable for elk at reasonable range. I know the bullet design is more important than the caliber, and I plan on using a good bullet like Nosler Partition or Failsafe in 160 gr. I think my Rem. Mountain Rifle would be a lot more fun to carry than my S&W 7mag. In my opinion the 7mm-08 could be suitable, within a reasonable distance, for elk provided it is loaded up to the higher end of the velocity scale and a good premium bullet is used. It would certainly NOT be my first choice of cartridges to use, but that doesn't mean it won't work. Lets try to keep things civil here... ------------------
Paul B Supreme Member Posts: 1060 From: Tucson, AZ Registered: Mar 2002	posted 05-01-2002 01:55 AM Greg. I agree. This did get a hair out of hand. My apologies to all for being part of the donnybrook. Paul B.
buckblaster Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Colville, WA, USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 05-01-2002 11:07 PM All I know is that the 7-08 blew a hole the size of your thumb out the exit wound thru the lungs of a big bull at 200 yards using a 160 gr Barnes X bullet. Isn't velocity the main factor with a premium bullet? Performance in this case was plenty ample. Would the 7-mag do the same thing by blowing a hole out the far side? I think so. There are alot of bigger calibers that would have shown the same result too. Everyone should shoot to their ability and know when the range is too long for their caliber. So is the 7-08 big enough for elk? I proved it last elk season.
Hellrazor Supreme Member Posts: 2307 From: Abyss, PA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-02-2002 03:44 PM If you can easily shoot through something, thats means it worked more then good. All the energy was not consumed inside the animal. That can also be pointed at poor bullet expansion in SOME cases.
RELODER28 Supreme Member Posts: 1346 From: DEER PARK, TX Registered: Feb 2001	posted 05-02-2002 05:14 PM BeeMan, I used to be one of those " great white, armchair, heresay, computer program, book worm " people you speak of. Then I got up and went hunting. Quickly realized that I had no time for that stuff anymore because not much of it applied to my true hunting and field experiences. According to the book, my 6.5 JDJ only pushes 800 ft lbs at 300 yards from its 14" barrel, but it drops WhiteTail out to 300 yds like I have never seen. If I believed the book, I would have never carried it afield.
buckblaster Junior Member Posts: 22 From: Colville, WA, USA Registered: Nov 2000	posted 05-02-2002 11:36 PM Hellrazor, Your point of poor bullet expansion was a point of my concern after killing this elk. If you read my earlier post, I shot once thru the lungs then downed him with a shoulder shot. I dilligently searched for the spent bullet that lodged in the chest cavity from the shot thru the shoulder to see if it expanded properly but could not find it. I understand that a shot thru the lungs may not have hit a bone and therefore punched thru without proper expansion. But I wanted to see what the full bone shoulder shot did to the bullet. Does anyone know if the bullet has to exceed a certain velocity to achieve proper expansion with the Barnes X bullets under flesh-only penetration. Would magnum velocities be a must for this premium bullet to expand to it's greatest performance under these circumstances? I am thinking that a Nosler partion with it's lead point might be a better bullet for this caliber because of less than magnum velocity and maybe better expansion. What are the opinions of you guys that might be "better in the know" than I?
Zonechamp Older Than Dirt Member Posts: 379 From: Saskatchewan, Canada Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-02-2002 11:54 PM If your using Barnes bullets, the faster the better. Yes if they are travelling too slow they will not expand. This can be said for all bullets, but more so for Barnes. Contact them directly and they will say the same thing. ------------------ Bye For Now.
Hellrazor Supreme Member Posts: 2307 From: Abyss, PA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-04-2002 12:00 PM New and improved elk gun: http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20020503/mdf24980.jpg
The Butcher Member Posts: 87 From: Pittsburgh, Pa, USA Registered: May 2001	posted 05-04-2002 08:18 PM Hellrazor, It must be to slow for elk, look at the angle of trajectory. The cloud of smoke is most impressive though. If you miss, you at least have cover to sneak in close for a follow up shot. It looks like a 700mm-08. Hope it's big enough!
huntarizona Senior Member Posts: 296 From: Ft. Huachuca Az USA Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-06-2002 12:16 AM Snot nosed Army boy whew that hurt i'm going to cry cowkiller get your panties out of a twist i know several guys that know more about guns than you would ever dream about knowing. So when it comes to wildcats and velocities and squezzing everything there is out of a cartridge i probably know i just ask my very knowledgeable friends as far as taxes i hope i don't pay property taxes since i grew up on the warm springs indian reservation and you talk about elk hunters we know how to hunt we use everthing from 243 up to 338 cause we are to economically deprived to buy anything better so if the only gun you have is a 257 roberts or whatever and you feel comfortable with it use it take it from this snotnosed army kid i know the feeling of just having one gun to hunt with. So cowkiller thank you for supporting us deprived eastern oregonians and yes i'm just a snotnosed kid protecting your rights and your right to sleep at night and wake up whenever and eat at dennys or where ever but just remember when your at home sitting in your recliner eat your bowl of icecream theres a snotnosed army kid just like me sitting in op freezing his #@$ off good night everyone! Grew up on a reservation and don't have to pay property taxes.
Greg Administrator 264 RLB #1 Posts: 7501 From: Orange County, New York Registered: Jan 2000	posted 05-06-2002 10:30 AM OK, ENOUGH!!! The school yard name calling is over... Everyone back to class... Have you seen this before ? That is the next step for this thread... ------------------
Handloader Supreme Member Posts: 1270 From: N.E., Oklahoma USA Registered: Nov 2001	posted 05-06-2002 10:49 AM way to go Greg
BigBob3006 Supreme Member Posts: 760 From: RIO RANCHO-NEW MEXICO-USA Registered: Jan 2002	posted 05-06-2002 07:52 PM GREG, Thank you Greg. ------------------ BigBob .30-06
sadiehn1 Ultimate Member Posts: 723 From: kenosha wi Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-07-2002 07:41 PM I never posted on this topic but realy like Gregs last one
beemanbeme Supreme Member Posts: 2037 From: Middle of West Virginia Registered: Mar 2001	posted 05-09-2002 07:00 PM Reloder, I promised myself I wouldn't ask but I can't help it. what's a 6.5 jdj???
rugeruser Junior Member Posts: 34 From: Australia Registered: Dec 2001	posted 05-10-2002 09:15 AM FWIW, what the heck has gotten into you guys? The slanging match above has gotten totally out of control! What can possibly be achieved by this, apart from playing straight into the hands of the anti-gun movement? If we can't be civil on line, and stick to the questions and the context within they're asked by our fellow hunters, how can we defend our sport to others? I use a 270 fro pigs, my brother in law uses a 30-06, a friend uses a 243, another a 25-06. We have our debates, arguments, discussions, etc., but we ALWAYS respect the other persons opinion. Perhaps the moderator(s) should simply delete the topic. All the best, Rugeruser My suggestion to the moderators would be to delete the topic (unfortunately).